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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  April 3, 2013 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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last days where folks know when you're sick and care when you die. washington, you care that all e those kids die or wayne lapierre? that's "hardball." all in starts right now. it's election night in south carolina. polls closed one hour ago in the run off between former charleston county councilman and a certain former governor you might remember for turning -- tonight's election was necessary because while he finished a solid number one last month, mark sanford did not get over the 50% threshold needed to secure is nomination.
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the general election against steven colbert's sister is set for may 7th and the winner will take over the seat of former congressman tim scott, who was appointed last year when jim demint quit to go run the heritage foundation. technically, tonight's election is a small and specific thing. a run off in a single district in the state of south carolina, but in political terms, it is hugely important. in the unfolding drama of mark sanford and the larger question, the politics of scandal. who gets thrown out of public life and who gets to come back? mark sanford is a test case because he is not just any old defeated republican trying to make a comeback. mark sanford is a guy whose political defeat came at the hands of a humiliating, self-made scandal. >> he has been gone since last thursday. his wife didn't know where. not a trace. no security, no nothing. >> it's bizarre behavior, but
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that's not unusual. for this governor. >> last week, republican governor mark sanford disappeared. neither his security detail nor the lieutenant governor could find him. he missed father's day with his four sons and even his wife didn't know where he was. >> he is now according to his staff, expected back at work tomorrow. has he called you yet? >> he has not. >> what happens if he doesn't come back to work tomorrow? >> i don't have an answer for that question. >> before leaving on his argentine trip, he parked his car at the columbia, south carolina, airport filled with hiking gear and when confronted this morning at the atlanta airport, still lied about his disappearance. >> well, he originally intended to hike the appalachain trail, but had changed his mind last minute and decided to go some place more exotic. >> then today in a jaw dropping news conference that aired live around the globe, he ' revealed he's been in argentina with a
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woman, not his wife. >> i've been unfaithful to my wife. i developed a relationship with a, what started out as a dear, dear friend from argentina. >> did you tell your staff you were hiking the appalachain trail? >> i didn't tell them. i just said hey, this is where i'm going to go. >> after your press conference, your husband called you. >> right, for how did i do? >> after all that, after all that, mark sanford is making a bid for the readmittance to the small club of elected political life and the united states federal government and he is not the first politics to make a bid for that. not the first politician to attempt to go to fame and power again. in fact, this is a pretty common cycle in american politics. scandals are common place, particularly with twitter and texts and cameras everywhere.
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that's not what's interesting. what's interesting is who gets to recover and who doesn't. bill clinton was allowed to apologize and stay in power in public life. rightfully, i would add. even after his huge, embarrassing sex scandal cull min nated in em peachment. john edwards could hire a sky writing service to trail over the country and would not be allowed back. david vitter is still happily serving in the united states senate. anthony weiner, the guy who sent a selfie over twitter resigned from the house of representatives. the question primary voter rs weighing in on tonight in south carolina's first district is does mark sanford get to come back? has he paid off the debt of his disgrace disgrace? and it seems like we should take this moment to ask ourselves if we think he should and to consider what it mean for our
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political system that this question of redemption does not have a clear answer. joining me, michelle goldberg, betsy woodrough, political reporter for national review online and david axelrod, nbc senior political analyst. great to have you here. >> all right, so, you have been reporting on this race, betsy. i want to play how mark sanford responded to the obvious question that one would be asked under these conditions at a debate when asked about his affair. >> how do you reconcile redemption with the mistrust in your personal decision, which could or may have compromised the state and the party? >> what i would say is the events of 2009 absolutely represent a failure on my part for which there were and always will be at some level, consequences, but that does not mean because you've had a failure in your personal life, that you can not step back into
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life again. people kept calling, kept calling and they said, mark, you need to do this. because here's a chance for you to learn not only from your experience in congress and governorship, but more significantly, from what you learned on the way up and on the way down and apply it to what is arguably one of the great problems of our society. that's what i intend to do. >> you have spent a long career advising people who have run for office. how did he do in that answer? >> i have a feeling he probably practiced that a few times. i think he did about as well as you can do, which is to say i made a mistake. he made it clear, it was a mistake in his personal life. and really what he's arguing is i had frailties in my personal life. i've learned from those, but in terms of representing you on the things you care about, i would be an effective representative and i think people make that distinction between failures in your private life and your
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ability to represent them publicly. clinton, obviously, was the -- >> ultimate example. although his electorate here is in a conservative state, right? among a republican primary voters in a special election. we're talking about 30 or 40,000 people tonight, right? this is a far more conservative than the average electorate and we are talking this week, last two weeks, about marriage. the sanctity of marriage. yet, betsy, what are republican voters thinking about this guy striding in to run this race? >> well, depending on how the
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night turns out, they could be thinking this is a chance to practice christian forgiveness and the brilliance of his campaign is he's made it about his chance to make a public apology and to make amends. it's very smart. we can tell because he's engaged to the woman he met in argentina. a lot of people make mistakes, but we don't typically get married to them. sanford's managed to have it both ways. >> do you think it matters? this is not like the salationness of it is mitigated to the fact he is now engaged to the woman? >> my guess would be that doesn't help. for republican evangelical voters. i think that's part of the reason his fiancee has stayed out of the spotlight. >> i obviously can't speak to the mind set of conservative voters in south carolina, but i do think it helps him on some level with women in general. i just know that, i remember when the scandal was happening, people who usually loathe cheating cheat ing politics ians, held a soft spot for sanford because he talked about it as a tragic love affair. oh, this poor man, he's so head over heels. the fact it was a loveless marriage and he found his soul mate, that's easier for some women so swallow than a david
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vitter, this sordid, tawdry affair with no emotional consequences at all. >> it isn't without consequences, obviously. that he's in a run off in the state he carried overwhelmingly in the past speaks to the fact there are some residual problems associated with his behavior. it probably helped that his family and children in particular stood behind him. they were visible in support. >> yeah, how important is that? if you're advising a politician, mark sanford comes in and says i want to hire you for your sage advice. >> what are you doing? but once we got past. >> yes, in an alternate universe. >> he tried to hire jenny sanford to run his campaign. >> one thing that i find unbecoming and hard to understand are politicians who
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ask their spouses to stand with them as they admit to their, to their indes iscretions because it seems humiliating. that was a little, that was a little pea culiar. >> he was out there alone. >> i'm talking about trying to hire her to run the campaign seemed a bit odd. >> do you think betsy, that he has had to face enough criticism in the primary? and what's been interesting to me in looking at the races, it doesn't seem like he's really been raked over the coals for this. as you're watching from the outside, that guy, the appalachain trail guy? clearly, this will be a biggest thing in the campaign and looking at the campaign, the closest you can come to a direct
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attack is one of his primary opponents, the son of ted turner, ran this ad which was a kind of crypto attack on the appalachain trail. >> we've come a long way. i know it's been too much, but what's a few trillion? it was all for you. i'll keep my promises this time. it will be different. i'm sorry. for all the mistakes i've made. sugar, just give me one more chance? >> break up with career politicians. the right guy, teddy turner. conservative republican, economics teacher, not a politician. >> i'm teddy turner and i approve this message. >> why were they not more straightforward in going after him for this? >> i think that goes back to the forgiveness element. if you're the person sharpening the pitch forks and going after sanford, you come off as kind of a jerk to the extent somebody can enjoy forgive ing ing a
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politician, they don't want to support people being uncharitable about it. >> he has managed to pull off, we don't know what the verdict of the voters are going to render, but to put himself in contention, he's managed to pull off some amount of making himself a figure who is the subject of sympathy and compassion and someone who can be redeemed. that does not always happen. i want to talk about a candidate who is very promising, who imploded in a very public fashion against a young man running for united states senate in 2004, a race you're very familiar with and ask what happened there and what that test case says who we let back into public life and who we don't. right after this. ne, my doctor and i went with axiron, ne, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children
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so i don't think we've workeded out any kind of consistency over how the media covers all the sex scandals and what, what sorting through what is embarrassing and humiliating on one side and what is wrong or transgression that's worthy of public sanction, right? mark sanford abandoned his office. got $74,000 in ethics finding. there was a real dereliction of duty, but that's not why it was a huge story. >> right. and i don't think, i think what
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people associated with story with was his personal behavior and therefore, they gave him, there may be some latitude there. i think there are other instances in which you're, you know, the dereliction of duty is the focus of the scandal. that is harder to get over. that's an offense to the public. and yet, i should note the primary voters have seemingly forgiven him for that as the ap has just called, that mark sanford has indeed one his race there, so mark sanford will be facing a general election against elizabeth colbert bush, where polling has them around even. the paurt you're saying is that is the real dereliction. there doesn't seem to be much distinction made about about the interest in the thrill of leading someone's private e-mail changes.
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>> actually why again, as much as i think he has in politics, it's kind of a good thing he's able to transcend what was just a kind of personal family that had not kind of public consequences. it's not the same as spitzer, who has great politics, but who committed a crime, or david vitter, who committed an actual crime and had no business being in the senate. >> he never was actually charged with a crime, was he? >> no, but he was accused of a crime and -- >> right. i'm not defending anybody's behavior here, but you know, again, first of all, by the way, the fact that we have a run off and the fact he's running even in a race that's overwhelmingly in a republican district with a democratic opponent suggests this is a far from settled matter for voters in that area. he is paying a price.
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>> do you think his opponent is going to be able to go after him on this? without triggering the kind of compassion that he's managed to stoke in the primary voters? >> i don't think she will. if she goes after him because of this, it's going to be seen as we're double standards and bring up bill clinton. >> particularly in that district. >> i don't think she'll need to. i think everyone's aware and in the general election, it's hard to say how big of a difference it will make. >> i'm not sure that republicans in that district were that skittish about bringing up bill clinton. >> you had a candidate in 2004, barack obama, and he was facing a very what looked like a formidable candidate. covering the race. >> very much so. jack ryan. looked like a kennedy. tall, handsome. and worked at goldman sachs. teaching at an inner city school. you've got these two young, dynamic people and then
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basically, jack ryan had been married to an actress and the divorce records became unsealed. respondent took me to two clubs in new york during the day. it was a bizarre club with cage, whips and other apparatus hanging from the ceiling. wanting me to have sex with him there with another couple watching, i refused. then in paris, he took me to a sex club in paris without telling me. this came out and this was i remember covering it at the time -- >> you didn't cover this kind of stuff in the mornings. >> this is only safe for prime time. i covered this as a print reporter. went absolutely bonkers. and jack ryan has never been heard from again. i thought what exactly is the, what exactly is the public merit
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of this particular case? >> i disagree with that. there's a level of sadism there. it's not just that it's pure yent, it's that he seems like again, literally the definition of sadism. it's almost if not actually legally abusive -- >> but the point is that this was a sealed divorce complaint, right, filed by one person. the other case is anthony weiner. anthony weiner, as far as we know, never actually committed the sin of adultery, and yet, the reaction to him was massive. the amount of condemnation, the amount of press. he couldn't walk down the street, right? what is that about that anthony weiner got that amount of attention and david vitter did not? >> anthony weiner got a bum rap i think. as we were talking about before, maybe part of the lesson is you have to stick around. if anthony weiner hadn't
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resigned, maybe people would just get over it. >> part of his problem was that he was so insistent you know, that he tried to bogart his way through. >> that's right. >> and it created a great deal of his own problem by doing that. i think in this case and the jack ryan case, you just read that stuff. most people would listen to that. i mean, there are cases of people having affairs u all the time. i'm not excusing that or, but you know, the sanford thing falls into one category. this falls into quite another. i really agree with that and i think that's what people were reacting to about that particular story. >> you want to say something? >> absolutely. i think going back to the question of how the media handles it, what we have to remember is that the media's interested in something often because buy papers. talking about the -- snaek sneaking off to argentina, one of these things is not like the
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other. unfortunately, he wasn't married to the woman, but we're talking about stories ta capture people's imaginations and both stories do and in different ways. >> that gets it. we apply a standard of itlation as opposed to any kind of moral framework and who the transgression is to. whether it's a violation of the public trust. of a private contract or relationship. but i think we think purely in terms and then call it something moral in our judgment. thanks a lot. remember sequestration? how politicians were saying the cuts wouldn't be so bad? tell that to the guy who took such a bad pay cut. he wants to go back to work. that's coming up.
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case you missed it, debate raised over the merits of lindsay lohan's april fools prank. no, she's not pregnant. first, an update to the story we brought you about the arkansas oil pipeline, which spilled thousands of gallons of crude into a suburban subdivision. today, we learned exxon will not have to pay because of the technicality. it was diluted with lighter fluids, which accord tog a 1980
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law is not classified as oil. it is worse because it's harder to clean up. with hundreds of thousands of barrels of this heavy oil gushing through the pipeline, it's probably time to update the law. meanwhile, in response to a request from mother jones as to how many barrels of whatever it is had been spilled, a spokesman said a few thousand barrels of oil were observed in the area, a response has been taken to ensure adequate resources are in place. approximately 12,000 barrels have been recovered. crews are steam cleaning oil from property. we asked tim griffin, who represents the affected area and is seen here in an ad supporting the keystone pipeline to be a guest on our program. his office declined citing his anniversary. congratulations, congressman, we look forward to having you soon. james hansen is is ending his 46-year government career so he
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can protest the government. he is the nasa climate scientist who in 1988, after more than a decade of evidence gathering, declared that nasa was quote 99% certain that the global warming trend was not a natural variation. in other words, human induced global warming had begun, but -- moonlighted as an activist. hansen said you can't testify against the government. he was arrested outside the white house in 2010 calling for a ban on mountain top removal. we recently learned ecuador plans to sell more than a third of its 8 million hectors of rain forest. we are reminded here in this country, the lead government scientist on climate changed has reached the point where he feels his efforts are better served. kudos to james hansen.
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in case you missed it, a new york democratic state senator and several republican politicians have been arrested in new york city in a new york city mayoral plot. malcolm smith of queens is accused of trying to bribe local leaders to allow him to run as a republican and some context is necessary here. just a few months ago, smith announce ed announced he was defecting from a democratic caucus to join a coalition with the republicans to maintain the gop's control over the state senate. that despite the fact that candidates with ds next to their names had won enough races to gain a majority. so today, we have an indictment against senator smith and others allege ing bribery, fail fraud. it is not an accident to find the nexus of party switching for political expediency and corruption. if someone is willing to switch
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sides for short-term power, then what else would they be willing to do? from the state of tennessee, appalling legislation to cut the welfare benefits of families whose children are performing poorly in school. they have passed in both houses. there are exceptions for children with with handicaps and learning disabilities and in cases where parents take clear action. in the words of vance dennis, the legislation uses a carrot and stick approach. problems with the legislature abound, to cite a few, what about undiagnosed learning disabilities or the undue pressure on a child's performance or as mike turner says, the kid still has to eat. as opposed to social policy as a way to support people's flourishing. in the case of high stakes testing and cheating in atlanta that we covered yesterday, educators turned defendants are
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beginning to surrender themselves into school's custody, beverly hall, who along with her legal team, walked into the jail this morning. lawmakers in tennessee are pioneering new frontiers of high stakes testing. if your kid fails his test, he doesn't eat. we'll be right back with click three.
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this is jeff marriott. served his country, came home to a desk job and got his life in order, then sequestration kicked in. he says the only way he can bay his bills is if he goes back to war. he joins me next. first, the first awesome thing i saw on the internet has to do with this. major newspaper finds the key to gravity layoffs soon to come. why am i speaking in a form of poetry? because as a nod to national poetry month, "the new york times" has launched something
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called -- an online duration of haikus plucked from articles. the senior architect developed a rhythm that scans each sentence by using an electronic dictionary containing syllable counts. it checks the times home page for newly published articles. the choices selected are then reviewed by man and put up on the site. harris says he updates to include words like rihanna. here's a sample. to many, the mets appear destined for a fifth straight losing season. as a leftover, the soup was equally good. there's a link from the article. the last piece from a modest proposal for more back stabbing in preschool. the second awesomest comes from a twitter.
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wondering if the keystone pipeline was a bike path. liberals in bike helmets. these sketches from landscape architects, imagine a world in which the pipeline has been approved, but all is not lost. the design team is proposing a cross-country bike path to run along the same route. as writer kelsey campbell points out, a bike path next to an oil pipeline is a e quif lent of a band-aid on a mortal wound. and from boston based freelancer, luke o'neill. as he reports, it looks as if the boston police are going undercover to stop dyi indy rock shows. the band spelling bee posted e-mails in a sting -- came from
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one hard core boston punk by the name of joe sly. mr. sly has been e-mailing noise bands from his g-mail account to see when they're heading into town to play diy concerts. thanks to our twitter fan for pointing us to this story. funniest thing i've seen in a while. you can find all the links for tonight's click three on our website. and on our facebook page. submit your click three nominees on twitter. right back.
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today, john stanton of buzz feed published a fantastic piece of story telling, telling the story of one of the many untold victims of washington's latest rounds of self-imposed austerity, the sequester. a piece so eye opening, it made everyone on the staff stop what they were doing and read it. it tells the story of 39-year-old jeff marian, who as he sees it, must leave his job and go back into combat. he was just getting by at a desk job. that is until the sequester hit, cutting 27% of his paycheck.
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$900 from the $3400 he makes each pay period. his first response was to get another job delivering pizzas. he also traded in a bmw for a white chevy impala. he was awarded a bronze star in saud sadr city in 2008 found himself dwelling deeply on one question. how do i unf myself from this situation. his answer, he would like to go back to war. because of the drawdown from iraq and afghanistan despite his many efforts, he has not been able to get back to combat, which would mean tax free income, an increase in his pay and his maryland apartment paid for. right now, he continues to work a second job at papa john's while aplying for deployment. it's a kick in the teeth -- he is an amazing and upsetting single story about life in the united states during our long,
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grinding an unnecessary austerity era, but there are thousands of other americans who do or will have similar stories. another story details 100 examples of current or impending cuts caused by the sequester. everything from housing assistance being slashed in texas to research jobs being cut in durham, north carolina. so the question is, why doesn't washington seem to care about any of them? joining me at the table, heather mcghee, the vice president at the public policy organization, ezra cline, msnbc policy analyst and shaina hewitt and from washington is jeff merriack. jeff, i want to start with you because what i thought was
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really interesting was hearing your story and then you talking about the sequester and your feeling about government spending and the first thing i wanted to know was when the sequester debate was happening, were you following it and did you think it would have an impact on your life? >> no. well, first of all, thanks for having me here. and i'd like to point out that while i think my car smells like failure, it's not because i work at a pizza place. it's because of the decisions i've made that have made, that's the failure that i've made is to put me in the spot that i'm in. where as the sequestration certainly exacerbates the problem i've made for myself. however, no. to answer your question, directly, no. i didn't necessarily think like the politicians themselves, they've said no one really thought it would come to this. now, we've had scares over the last year or two or three about government shutdowns, can't get to the decision point of where
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we have a budget or what not, so that has been discussed. we are aware of those kinds of issues. >> jeff, at the end of the article, you say that the government does waste a lot of money, that the government does need to tighten its belt. i wonder if this is what it looks like. a 27% pay cut for you. what your response is to that. >> well, yeah, like i told john, it would be intellectually dishonest to whine when the cut is me. i'm certainly not complaining for myself. while i agree that certainly, that's ways that spending needs to be curtailed, i may be one of the one of the -- casualties, so to speak.
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and how does it affect me? it affects me from my paycheck, which is why i got the second job. but there's, in essence around the corner, there's a zombie apocalypse, potentially, and what that is is okay, what happens after the sequestration, the furlough is over and we still don't have a response? then i may lose my job and so, in order for me to prep for that doomsday, if you will, i'm looking at going back for deployment. >> shaina, you work with a different population. kids in brownsville, a very poor neighborhood in new york. what are you seeing from the sequester? >> what we're seeing is really sort of trying to figure out what we need to do in order to have our program still run and serve the community, yet meet these cuts we have to make. >> you have cuts coming down. >> we do have cuts coming down. we have to look and see where we needed to make the cuts, so they
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basically leave it up to each organization, each center, each program, to figure out where it is they're going to make their cuts and it could come from anywhere. you really have to look at your budgeting. you have to look at your staffing. you have to look at what areas you're going to need to maybe cut back on. >> what are you guys doing to do? >> it's not completely certain. we're still working out the lodgistics of it. at this moment, we have not faced any real cuts yet. >> no, no, that's interesting, you haven't faced any real cuts yet. part of what the disconnect, what is the time scale? >> the dumbest thing we did. >> the dumbest thing? >> fair enough. >> good competition. but the day after the sequester came into effect, we looked around and to use a term, we said there are no zombies anywhere. >> zombie apocalypse did not happen. this was all a joke. it was all just hype.
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the way these cuts were allowed was over time, the unemployment checks, which get cut by 10% across the board, that doesn't begin until this month, until april. the cuts you're facing haven't begun yet, but they're coming and over time, the cuts are cumulative because the agencies dealing with them, in order to hope that washington as we originally expected, would come to a quick deal, was doing a delay move. they were trying to make it so they wouldn't have to do them yet, maybe they'd never have to do them, but that means in the rest of the year, if it becomes clear, we are never getting rid of the sequester. the actual cuts will become worse, not better. >> that is what's so key because what ended up getting debates was the day after. what does the day after look like? i want to play two bits of sound. the republicans saying it's not that big a deal. the president saying this is a huge deal and you can see what the tenor of the conversation was right before they went into effect. take a look. >> sequester didn't even cut any spending.
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it just slows the rate of growth of government. >> they ought to do it in a way that doesn't inconvenience the american people and they can probably find a way if they want to. >> this modest reduction of 2.4% in spending over the next six months is a little more than the average american experienced just two months ago. >> emergency responders like the ones here today, their able ti ility to help xhubts respond to and help communities recover from disasters will be degraded. federal prosecutors will have to close cases and let criminals go. air traffic controllers and airport security will see cutbacks. everybody here. all the folks who are cleaning the floors at the capitol. they're going to have less pay. the janitors. the security guards. they just got a pay cut. >> i mean, the fact is what we saw in the "huffington post" piece was rolling out 100 different places all over the country where they're going to
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be lotteries to figure out what kids can't go to preschool this summer. >> and we saw it in section 8 housing. unemployment. rental assistance. part of me thinks this story here is a little bit of a story of who are the folks writing about national politics and are they the folks that are at seo or whose kids might have their hours cut. >> to hear him say it has to be done in a way that's not going to inconvenience is every day people, it's heartbreaking. i see it every day. i know what the impact will be. if any part of our program is cut. >> what we've seen here, too, and the kinds of cuts. >> hold that thought because i want you to talk what the zombie apocalypse will look like when it happens, right a after this break. i cut you off tantalizingly . for a clean that's up to four times better, try these crest pro-health products together. [ sara ] i've been using crest pro-health. so feels different. [ male announcer ] crest pro-health protects not just some, but all these
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i cut you off tantalizingly mid thought. >> this is this game being played in washington. you heard mitch mcconnell say, it's a 2.4% cut. that's because medicare is exempt and largely social security. the actual programs affected, it's more like 7 to 10% and when you go into that, there has been this effort among republicans in washington to try to make the sequester cuts to hide them. what i thought was the most sickening episode in this whole very, very sad affair was when washington had a freak out about white house tours being canceled. if you're going to cut anything in government, cut the white house tours.
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>> it's the perfect example because the issue behind the deficit is the donor classes deficit and that little goody is what goes to donors. >> people who talk to their congressmen. >> you know what they're complaining about? >> the people in your program, i would imagine most don't have a direct line to their congressman, but it's a cut for the functions of washington politicians, they don't feel. >> right. >> that's something that our program tries to increase is the a awareness of our families, to do these things and advocate for themselves. it's a vicious cycle. >> the program you have, early learning, there's a waiting list for that, i imagine. >> yeah. it serves the community in a great way. >> if the zombie apocalypse as jeff said and i want to ask you what it looks like from where you're standing. what i think is so perverse
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here, is that each successive austerity fight has had less and less attention. this is the americans paying close attention to washington fiscal deadlines. now sequestration was down to 25% and it's kind of brain deadened all of us about what's actually happening. so if we're six months from now and the cuts come out and accelerate, what are you looking at? what does it mean in human term for the kids and families you serve? >> it could mean a shorter day for our children. less staff. which could mean we're affecting the children in the program and our staff members who rely on these jobs to you know, provide for their families and better themselves. it impacts the parents of those children. these parents are now leaving their children in child care feeling that they're leaving
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their children in a reliable, safe place and they're going to get job training, their ged, so they can advance. >> if you walk into a working parent's life and say we're going to take away two hours of child care, that's huge. jeff, you sound like if this stays in place, you're worried your job might be on the chopping block. >> yeah, i am. and while i'm a pale juxtaposition to your other guests and their wonderful organizations, yeah, if i recently took this job from fort bragg, north carolina to move up here to the d.c. area to better myself, to have an opportunity to improve and succeed and because i just took this job right when this happened, i can only imagine i have to doomsday prep for that inevitable ility that they're not going to furlough forever, so they're going to cut. i would imagine. i have to plan for that, any ways, and if they cut, i'm out of a job. i'm the new one in.
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>> is there a point, heather, ezra, where it does become visible? it goes from being invisible to visible and d.c. wakes up? >> becoming visible to people in the communities is one thing. beyond white house tours to the people who are decision makers is a completely different thing. what more visibility do you need than 20 million people who are underemployed than cutbacks in funding tr funding for education that people are graduating with $20,000 in debt. what more visibility does washington need? that's a democracy question. >> this is a, to go on that exact point, this is not the time. there is ways to and not that much of it, that's one of the key things in the government, but to put people out of work at a time when we have three or four people for every single job opening nb


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